Legislature(2001 - 2002)

02/13/2001 03:35 PM Senate STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
               SB  65-PAY EQUITY FOR STATE EMPLOYEES                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY said that  SB 65 would require the State of Alaska to                                                            
conduct   a   gender   equity   study   regarding   state   employee                                                            
compensation.  Although compensation  studies have been done,  there                                                            
has  never been  an  analysis  of whether  women  or men  are  being                                                            
discriminated against because  of gender. Female state employees are                                                            
generally  paid less than  male state employees  but it isn't  known                                                            
whether  this is  due to  discrimination  or whether  the jobs  they                                                            
perform are valued less in the work market.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
In looking  at the experiences of  other states on this issue  there                                                            
are two basic  scenarios. In the first, the states  are proactive in                                                            
performing  gender equity  studies. If discrimination  is found  the                                                            
state corrects the problem.  In the second situation, the state does                                                            
nothing  until a  discrimination  lawsuit  is filed.  The  proactive                                                            
approach  is economical in  the long term  because litigation  is so                                                            
costly.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1588                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The legislature  will work with the Department of  Administration to                                                            
try to keep the  study costs to a minimum but it is  important, from                                                            
a government  management point of  view, that the study go  forward.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked for questions for Senator Donley.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  PHILLIPS said  he thought  that a  study was  done five  to                                                            
seven years ago and he  wanted to know why it would differ from this                                                            
one.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  DONLEY said  that past  compensation  studies haven't  been                                                            
true  gender  equity  studies.  They haven't  done  an  analysis  of                                                            
whether the  particular job classification  is paid less  because it                                                            
is dominated by  a particular gender. Gender equity  studies look at                                                            
job  classifications  that  are dominated  by  one gender  and  then                                                            
determine whether  or not that is how the compensation  for that job                                                            
was established as opposed  to the true value of the work performed.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked for questions.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DAVIS asked for  a list of the states that already conducted                                                            
gender equity  studies. She  also wanted to  know if there  are many                                                            
states that had made corrections.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY said he would provide the list to the committee.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  said  there  was  information  in  the  packet                                                            
stating that the National  Committee on Pay Equity had identified 20                                                            
states as having fair pay/pay equity for state employees.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DAVIS said she  had read that and wondered if SB 65 would do                                                            
anything differently.  She too thought  there had been a  study done                                                            
some years ago.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  PHILLIPS said  he  had been  trying to  get a  copy of  the                                                            
previous study  and would share the  information once it  was in his                                                            
possession.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1809                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DAVIS  agreed with  the need for such  a study but  wondered                                                            
about the timeline.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  DONLEY said  they were  trying  to give  the Department  of                                                            
Administration time to  develop a system for doing the study so that                                                            
was why the study  results wouldn't be presented to  the legislature                                                            
until 2003.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT noted the arrival of Senator Halford.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT   felt  that  the  $750,000  fiscal   note  was                                                            
speculative at this point.  He wondered whether the department would                                                            
locate computer  programs  that could be  used and examine  programs                                                            
developed by other states  and then return to the legislature with a                                                            
more complete cost estimate for the study.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY  said progress  was being made  to reduce costs  from                                                            
the original  estimate and  he wanted to continue  to work  with the                                                            
Department  of Administration to find  the most economical  approach                                                            
possible.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked for questions and there were none.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1978                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.   STEWART,    personnel   manager   for   the   Department    of                                                            
Administration, Division  of Personnel, said that although the state                                                            
has  conducted  many market  evaluation  salary  studies,  a  gender                                                            
equity  study has not  been done.  The Pete  Marwick study,  dealing                                                            
with job classifications, was done about three years ago.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  he thought  Senator  Phillips might  have                                                            
been  referring  to  a  salary  study  and  although  that  provides                                                            
information  about job  categories  it doesn't  answer the  question                                                            
about  whether  similar  job categories  might  have  different  pay                                                            
scales because  one of those jobs  is dominated by one gender  while                                                            
the other is not.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART said that the  department is supportive of the effort to                                                            
develop a study.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked if there is concern about litigation.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART  said he doesn't  share that  concern. There are  checks                                                            
and balances  in the system and there  hasn't been a large  increase                                                            
in  grievance  complaints  indicating  problems  that  haven't  been                                                            
identified.  While there isn't  a pressing  problem, the system  can                                                            
always benefit from a reevaluation.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   PHILLIPS   asked  what   became   of  the   Pete   Marwick                                                            
classification study and how much it cost.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART didn't  believe anything was done with  it; the cost was                                                            
about $225,000.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said  he believes the cost was $250,000 for that                                                            
study and  the beginning  of the Education  Study. It could  provide                                                            
useful information  but it didn't answer the questions  addressed by                                                            
SB 65.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  PHILLIPS asked  if that  study pointed  to certain  trends,                                                            
such as a gender gap.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART said  the Pete Marwick study didn't discuss  gender gap.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT wondered  whether it  might be advantageous  to                                                            
reexamine  the data to  look for  trends that  weren't the focus  of                                                            
that study.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART didn't think so.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  that when software  use is a possibility                                                             
and other states'  programs are considered, the fiscal  note figures                                                            
seem speculative.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART said the FY02  $50,000 figure was the amount anticipated                                                            
for commissioning  an independent review of possible  bias problems.                                                            
The $750,000  is an estimate of what  a full study would  cost. This                                                            
was  put in  FY03 in  case something  was  found during  the  review                                                            
period.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN   THERRIAULT  said   according  to   Senator  Donley,   the                                                            
anticipated  costs have  been adjusted  down but  he wanted to  know                                                            
what the starting figures were.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART  said they  started with seven  zeros. Senator  Donley's                                                            
office was helpful in directing  them to existing models such as the                                                            
one  from  Minnesota.  They  have developed  a  software  system  to                                                            
repeatedly test job classes  but their classification system is very                                                            
different  from  Alaska's  so  it's not  useable  unless  all  state                                                            
positions are reclassified.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The fiscal  note is an average of  rough estimates that ranged  from                                                            
$1.5  million  to $500,000  to  do  a  complete  "job class  by  job                                                            
classing position-by-position study".                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  PHILLIPS asked  whether  the Department  of Administration                                                             
(DOA) was better  able to do this type of study than  the Department                                                            
of Labor  (DOL) and  is "the study  just for  the classification  of                                                            
state government or employment period."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEWART  said that DOL has labor  economists and can  talk about                                                            
trends  and  analysis while  DOA  has  the experts  on  the  state's                                                            
classification system for state employment.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said  that although DOA would be contracting the                                                            
study out,  it deals with  job classifications  and would  therefore                                                            
manage the contract.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-5, Side B                                                                                                               
Number 2356                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  said that  he was somewhat  concerned about  the                                                            
second  year of  funding  because  although  they aren't  making  an                                                            
appropriation  with the fiscal  note, the  legislature is giving  an                                                            
indication of what the agency can expect for funding.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He asked if  there were any questions.  There were none so  he asked                                                            
Caren Robinson  forward to testify  on behalf of the Alaska  Women's                                                            
Lobby.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KAREN ROBINSON,  Alaska  Women's Lobby,  said  she agreed  with                                                            
Senator Donley, that this  study is "the right, fair and smart thing                                                            
to do." The  Alaska Women's Lobby  is hopeful that this legislation                                                             
will pass  and pleased that  the Administration  is willing  to work                                                            
with the legislature.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  for questions  and  other testimony  and                                                            
there was no response.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He said there  were no amendments  and no committee substitutes.  He                                                            
turned his attention to  the fiscal note and asked Senator Donley if                                                            
he would prefer dealing with DOA for the second funding year.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY  said that his understanding  of the fiscal  note was                                                            
that $50,000  was allocated for the  preliminary assessment.  If the                                                            
assessment indicated  problems, then funding would  have to be found                                                            
for a full study. He thinks the assessment figure is reasonable.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said that if the full study is  needed, it will                                                            
need to be worked into the next operating budget.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY  said that's  true. If there  are indications  that a                                                            
full  study  is needed,  an  assessment  will  need  to be  done  to                                                            
determine the size of the problem.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD said that  although the amount in the fiscal note is                                                            
not binding, he would be  more comfortable if it was $500,000 rather                                                            
than $750,000.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  agreed and said it is his preference  to change                                                            
the amount from $750,000  to $500,000 since the estimate was in that                                                            
range.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said that  if the initial assessment indicated that a                                                            
full study  is necessary  she thought the  data would ultimately  be                                                            
more useful  if a  market study  was done  at the  same time as  the                                                            
gender study.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DONLEY  said he would continue to work with  DOA to identify                                                            
the correct parameters  of the initial study because  he agrees with                                                            
Senator  Pearce;   the  marketplace  situation   also  needs  to  be                                                            
examined.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked for the will of the committee.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE  made a motion to move SB 65 and the  $500,000 fiscal                                                            
note  move from  committee with  individual  recommendations.  There                                                            
were no objections.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said SB 65 with the modified  fiscal note would                                                            
be moved.                                                                                                                       

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